The B2B Marketing & Sales Podcast

AI: The Rise of the Machines?

June 29, 2023 Dave Loomis & Steve Miller Episode 64
AI: The Rise of the Machines?
The B2B Marketing & Sales Podcast
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The B2B Marketing & Sales Podcast
AI: The Rise of the Machines?
Jun 29, 2023 Episode 64
Dave Loomis & Steve Miller

In this podcast episode, we explore the most valuable lesson we can learn from the advancements in AI technology. Brace yourself for a mind-bending question: Are we all "Unconscious Incompetents" when it comes to AI? Join us as we unravel the mysteries of, an app that generates video clips (shorts) with captions, and discover how AI can not only enhance our jobs but also beat the competition. Get ready to be amazed by the power of AI and its potential to shape our future. Don't miss out on this captivating conversation that will leave you questioning everything you thought you knew about AI.

Follow Dave:

Get Dave's book: Marketing Is Everything We Do

Interested in learning how Voice of the Customer can grow your business? Contact Dave:

Follow Steve:

Get Steve's bestselling book: Uncopyable: How to Create an Unfair Advantage Over Your Competition

Want to learn how to generate more business without spending a ton of moolah, and separate yourself from the competition? Steve's online presentations and consulting will make you UNCOPYABLE! Contact him:

Show Notes Transcript

In this podcast episode, we explore the most valuable lesson we can learn from the advancements in AI technology. Brace yourself for a mind-bending question: Are we all "Unconscious Incompetents" when it comes to AI? Join us as we unravel the mysteries of, an app that generates video clips (shorts) with captions, and discover how AI can not only enhance our jobs but also beat the competition. Get ready to be amazed by the power of AI and its potential to shape our future. Don't miss out on this captivating conversation that will leave you questioning everything you thought you knew about AI.

Follow Dave:

Get Dave's book: Marketing Is Everything We Do

Interested in learning how Voice of the Customer can grow your business? Contact Dave:

Follow Steve:

Get Steve's bestselling book: Uncopyable: How to Create an Unfair Advantage Over Your Competition

Want to learn how to generate more business without spending a ton of moolah, and separate yourself from the competition? Steve's online presentations and consulting will make you UNCOPYABLE! Contact him:

Dave & Steve Discuss AI
(transcript from AI) ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

Steve: Don't care. You know what? I'm not going to send a correction. Forget it. But that, but the first thing on there, I'm telling you, you got to go get this. And I'm using it. I'm going to, at, I'm starting to use it for our pod, our podcast. Is that this thing called Opus dot pro or, 

Dave: I'm going to, I'm going to do it.

I looked at your clip. It looked really cool. Did it put the 

Steve: the words in every, everything 100% of what you saw was created by this app. 

Dave: Okay. I love that. I love that. And here's the best part. You give it a URL. So, like I gave, I give it a URL.

And I had to kind of learn how to do this a little bit because, there's not a lot of instruction, but because it's free. And so you put the URL of the YouTube in. Then it takes off. And, it says, all right, you're number 572 in the queue, and it's probably going to take about an hour.

We'll let you can leave, we'll let you know. All right. And then it sends 


Steve: A, a thing that says, all right, it's ready, and you got a link, and you go into the link, and it has a minimum of 10 clips from 

Dave: your video. 

Steve: How long is the video? Oh it's, imagine it's you and me.

45 minutes maybe. Okay. Oh, okay. And you can do it, 

Dave: and it'll pull 10 clips out. 

Steve: It pulls out 10 clips that are like one minute, 

Dave: And they're like pithy. They're like, how does it know? Does 

Steve: It, how do it know? How do it know ai? How do it know? And so then it, and not only, so it ta it pulls that clip out.

And then it puts the captioning in. That's outstanding. I love that. All right. And you can tell it whether you want the captioning to be like, where it highlights the words as it's going or something like that. Fun stuff like that. But then when it gives you like 10 clips, it rates each one doesn't Yeah.

To what it thinks will be how it will be received by viewers. And it rates them, it rates it from a hundred to zero or zero to a hundred. Okay. So the very top one, it, the highest I've gotten, the highest score I've gotten from the top one is 99. And then it'll, and then the next one. And then it gives them to you in, so the next one is like 94 and the next one is 82 and stuff like that.

And it tells you why you got it. Got that score. So you 

Dave: can boost it next time. Wow. Yeah. Wow. This is just, it's just unreal. It is. I didn't get a chance to talk to you yesterday, last week, but I went to a I went to a morning session. I'm in an innovation group around here and I, the, and a lot of big companies and this guy was there, 

Steve: a few people were there, 

Dave: all three or four of these panelists the whole morning.

They're all in the AI business. They either have AI consulting firms where they, know a lot about it. And one guy was, one guy was like the former c t O of Etsy. He just left; he still does a lot of work for them. But some of the stuff that he was saying, just blew me away.

They use a lot of AI pattern recognition stuff and other things. But I just didn't realize how big Etsy was. 

Steve: They have oh my God, Etsy is such a great company. They have 44,000 servers. He 

Dave: said they have a thousand software engineers. Yeah. But there was a lot of, there was talk about G P T for, and the fact that, open AI has spent a hundred million dollars in just in computer time to train G P T for a hundred million bucks in computer time. The other thing this guy told said, which was just fascinating, was he said that there, there are these and I think you know this Because you at 

Steve: least you've won, you've used somewhere. You can just 

Dave: give a tool, your writing samples, and it'll write, in your style.

Yeah. But you could do the same with basically he was, I don't know the name of this tool. I can find out. I may have it. But he says, you load everything into this thing. It costs a couple thousand dollars. Wow. And you load everything, all your content that you can find that you have, or you direct it to any content that you've ever created, videos audio all your writing, everything you possibly can, and it ingests it all and then it becomes you.

And you can, a person can query that ai, 

Steve: and it will answer the question as you would answer it right in your voice. I love that with vid, with video, 

Dave: with you saying those 

Steve: things. And he didn't have the video with him, but he had his phone with him, and he held it up 

Dave: and it was him talking, giving an answer to something.

And he said, I've never said these 

Steve: words. I've 

Dave: never answered this question, but this is exactly how I would answer it. Yeah. He said, so we're basically 

Steve: On the border of immortality. Here's the pro, here's the problem. That that, or the thing that the way I'm looking at this, there are all these people who, yes, you know what?

They have been involved in AI for a, for years. Okay. This is a See change game changer. You know what chat G P T did. Yeah. That's other companies, said are now coming and you know what other companies are now coming in and doing. These guys have no idea. 


Dave: guys that I was with do, they were saying this is, ac actually a 

Steve: absolute game changer.

But they're saying it because it wasn't what they were doing. I don't understand what you're saying. You're saying 

Dave: that, you're saying that the people that I saw don't realize how big it is, 

Steve: even though that'll their business, they'll admit, they'll not admit it. Okay, here's, see, I want you to think about something, right?

I don't even understand why you're saying, let me put it to you. Let me put it to you this way. All right. Why would they admit it in no, back in 1990? Because people have egos. But that's what they, I, that they, so they were lying when they said, I'm not saying they were lying. I'm, I don't understand.

Back in 1990 when I wrote my How to Get the Most Out of Trade Shows book, which I don't have right here in front of me right now, I have a chapter in there. Okay? So are you, 

Dave: but you understand the inf impact of 

Steve: this. 

Dave: Oh 

Steve: my God, my, oh my gosh. I, okay. But other people don't blown, but other people don't. I'm so blown away by this.

You understand it, but other people, 

Dave: but I don't, 

Steve: and you other people don't. I don't know what you're saying. No, what I'm, see what I'm saying is what I'm saying. I'm 71 years old. I've been through this a few times and 


Steve: I'm, and what is going on right now is bigger than when the internet came out.

I couldn't agree more. Yeah. And I've said, I've been saying this since November. I know 22nd that this is bigger than anything that has ever come out before. So I know. See, and here's the thing. Here's the thing. All we're doing is calling it ai, right? But here's the thing. On November 22nd, the world changed and the, and yet on November 21st, there were a shit load of people out there who called themselves AI experts,

and none of them saw this coming. Not like this. None of them did. They were doing ai. That was a very different type of, it was a different level of AI. When Google, okay. When Google created Bard,

it was only a couple of weeks after they released Bard, that Bard started behaving in ways. Google had no idea it could do. I know when it started talking in Nepalese. Yeah. All right. And the c e o comes out and says, I don't know how, I don't know how it's doing that. See, this is what I'm talking about.

They don't even know. They know how It's all these people, they don’t know how it's doing. All these people are supposed AI experts. See, right now, shit's happening. They're not just really get they're really not getting, they're, I don't mean getting they're not prepared for. Okay. And, okay.

And this is why and this is also why you're also seeing people who are very smart people who ha who were part of the AI world, here's the thing, Steve 

Dave: I really want to have like a 

Steve: conversation with you 

Dave: about all this. But I don't want to go be always going 

Steve: back and forth like you dissing me.

Oh, I'm not dissing you. I know. It's just that whenever I say something or bring up this topic, oh, no matter what I say, it always seems like. 

Dave: Like 

Steve: You, I, I know you know more about this than I do because you're doing a lot of work in it, but I don't, I really don't. I don't buddy, but I don't buddy.

And I know you're excited about it and that's how you feel. If that's how you feel. Man I really apologize. I No I just, I don't mean that this shit scares me. 

Dave: Yeah, me too. It's freaky. 

Steve: It's see here's but see I have almost my entire adult life, one of the things that I have learned, one of the things that has been a core part of my thinking was a report, and I think it was from a Har Harvard Business Review or something like that, some study or something like that, where they talk about before.

Squares of learning. Okay. Square number one, you are an unconscious incompetent square. Number two, you are a conscious incompetent square. Number three, you are a conscious competent square. Number four, you're an unconscious competent. And the, and I have spoken about this for 30 years and my and to my audiences.

I've written about this and I say, here's, here is the perfect example that everybody will get, and that is how to drive a car when you are a kid. And you would go with mom and dad and you would get in the car and they would start driving somewhere and you would ride in the back seat. Okay. And you're going along and every, and you're just like, this is so cool.

This is so easy. Everything's so fine. And 

Dave: I think 

Steve: I see where you're going with this. Yeah. At that phase, you're, you are you don't know how to drive a car, and you don't know that you don't know how to drive a car, right? You're in the bottom, bottom you're an unconscious encounter with everything.

Okay. And then you become, and then when you start to take lessons and the first time you get, be, get behind the wheel and you go, holy shit, I don't know how to do this. 

Dave: So at least you're a conscious 

Steve: incompetent. That's right. You're a conscious incompetent, and then you learn how to drive the car.

But in the beginning when you learn it's like you get in there and you're very conscious about every single, look at the rear view mirror, look at your, look at this way, look at look like that, and drive. Look around here. And it's all very conscious. So now you're a conscious competent, and then you become a conscious incompetent where you know what, you drive to work and you don't even remember driving to work.

Dave: That's funny. So what do you think 

Steve: AI is? I think AI has made us all unconscious incompetence. We don't know what we don't know. And for the pe and the hardest. And I would say that the group of people where this is the hardest to accept are the people who for years called themselves AI experts.

I see. 

Dave: I think the, it is interesting that that I've heard some people speaking about this and we always had this thought as human beings that the thing that made us special was that we could both think and reason and 

Steve: we're that's a, that's yeah, that's a really good point.

You know how, how America 

Dave: is has this weird exceptionalism 

Steve: like, oh, we're the greatest country 

Dave: in the world. Yeah. 

Steve: And yeah. Cause of that in Inside America, that's how we feel. Yeah. But, and inside as a human race, we feel 

Dave: Like the same way exception. Like we are special and we have a very special kind of intelligence that no other plant animal being that we know of has.

We're so special. Except now what we're hearing and I'm learning is that our intelligence 

Steve: is actually very similar 

Dave: to AI's intelligence. 

Steve: It's neural networks, it's learning neural networks. And there is, in a weird way, no real 

Dave: difference between our intelligence and the capability of that intelligence.

In fact, we're already less intelligent than the ai. A lot of the bots or whatever it is, wouldn't agree. 

Steve: We 

Dave: created. 

Steve: 100% agree. Agree with you. But what, but it would you agree with me if I said that, what we have now created is smarter than us because it learns faster?

Dave: Yeah. At L 

Steve: light, like light speed. I think so. Like light speed. Yeah. Like we have no idea. 

Dave: We have no idea. That's, 

Steve: We're not, we're not seven months into this. No. That's why I say we are all, and it doesn't, and I included, imagine everybody on the planet, including all those people who used to who think that they are the experts in this.

I'm sorry, folks. We are all unconscious incompetence right now. What about 

Dave: what's going to be in a year or two or three, which is like nothing in the scope of things. Even when the internet came out,, blah, blah, blah. It was like bite-sized chunks that we could get our arms around and adapt to and blah, blah, blah.

This may be running us in a year or two for all we know. This is the, 

Steve: This is Terminator. 

Dave: Yeah. It really is. It really is. Yeah. 

Steve: And that's what and boy, if I have ever we need to send you back make you feel back, make me make you feel bad.

I, boy, I sincerely apologize because No, you didn't. I think you are. I think you are such a brilliant guy. I am not. I am not a, I'm not a communicator. This is why I am an introvert. Why I am better. Oh I am unemployable. This is why Okay. I don't play well with others. 

Dave: And I know. I just ha I wanted to tell you that just, it says 

Steve: feedback, that's all.

Because I don't want to, I want to bring stuff up. That's cool. 

Dave: But I also don't want to be like pounced on. So that's 

Steve: all. And I'm not and to be, I didn't mean to be pouncing on you. I'm saying that I get that these guys, I get it. If I were in their shoes, I would be the exact same way.

But I'm not in their shoes. I'm outside. I'm looking in. Yeah. Okay. And I Exactly. And I'm, and I have that Harvard thing about do we know that we don't know. And I'm see, and I think there are a lot of people out there who have not gotten there yet. Yeah. Also what was said last week was because 

Dave: somebody said, when these chat bots or whatever it is, they were using these tools when they deliver an answer and we ask them, can you explain how you got your answer?

Can they do that? And the answer was they can provide a couple 

Steve: of examples of data points that they used, 

Dave: but the problem is that they actually may have a trillion data points like that. They're, so 

Steve: how do you explain that? It's, yeah it's like when I, boy, when chat g p t started, C started coming out and I was reading as much as I could about studying as much as I could about it, one of the things that absolutely just was so my mind just could not put, could not wrap around it.

Was that, that when you put a prompt in to chat g p t, okay. It doesn't come up with a, an idea where there's all these words. It's one word, it's at a time. That's the generative and that's the probability. It's all like probably, that what's the probability that the next word would be this?

Yeah. Or that, that is, what a word. At a time. That's an unbelievable concept. I, I, that is so hard for me to wrap my head around and God bless these people. Nicholas Negroponte was my mentor when it came to the when I wrote in my first book, my trade show book about this thing.

This thing, it was just a thing that was out there that I had learned about. And read about and studied, and I thought, is this things, because, I was trading, I was writing about trade shows. The question was is there something out there that might replace trade shows? Oh see, that was the whole thing. And so the question was and I don't even remember what I called it. I didn't call, it was not called the Worldwide Web. It was not called the internet. It wasn't called anything like that. But I had met Nicholas Negroponte. I read his books and I just kept reading this stuff, thinking, how's this going to impact the trade show industry?

That's all I cared about back then. Yeah. Yeah. That's all I cared about. 

Dave: Yeah, exactly. Hey, I, we should record, because I've got to go at 10 after six. 

Steve: We are recording. Oh, okay. Is this our actual, are you brave? Are you brave enough to publish this? I'm a brave dude. Because I, I think this is a great conversation and I would be happy to put this out as to say, Hey, we got on to start talking about something.

And it turned into a conversation that we didn't expect. That's 

Dave: fine with me. Let's 

Steve: keep talking. Okay, cool. Let's keep talking because I think this, I think people are going to listen to this and they're going to go, holy shit, yeah. This is good stuff. It, yeah.


Dave: really is. Did I can't remember if I sent you the output from an analysis that I did on chat G P T last week, I think 

Steve: it was. No, I don't think so. I don't think so. 

Dave: Let's see. I probably can't share it on my screen. 

Steve: I can give you, if you want, if you want to share something I'll I'm just thinking 

Dave: about, I 

Steve: want to make sure that, is it something you can, I don't know.

It's a client, it's a client issue. Oh, then, so then be careful. Be careful. Yeah. I, so I just 

Dave: want to I want to protect that, but I want to just share, I'll share with the, with our listeners, just the jaw-dropping ridiculous power that can come from this. And 

Steve: My advice to 

Dave: people, you were, you and I were talking when we first started about like prompts and, the way I write my prompts, a lot of times I imagine someone is sitting across the desk from me who I employ.

As, yeah. Like a research 

Steve: assistant. Yes. That's exactly what I tell my clients is act You're talking to somebody that you just hired. What would you tell, what would you tell them? Would you just tell them to 

Dave: do something without giving them any context? No. You would just say, okay, here's the situation.

I ha I'm doing this. I really want to learn about this, and here's what I would like you to do and the information that I would like to get, and when you bring it back to me, please put it in this format. And you be as specific as possible with them 

Steve: about the format that you wanted in. And so I did that, but this is and make it in English.

Dave: Yeah. This output would just add and make it in English. It, 

Steve: Just, simple stuff like that absolutely blew me 

Dave: away. Yeah. One of my clients makes products in They're industrial products for on construction sites called aerial lift platforms like boom lifts, scissor lifts, telehandler, 

Steve: that sort.


Dave: yeah. Okay. 

Steve: Sure. Okay. So I told Chat G P T and I use chat g p T for, I use the plus 

Dave: paid version so that I can at least get that. And I explained what I'm doing. I explained that I am building industry, 

Steve: Basically strategies for contractor 

Dave: segments. Okay? 

Steve: Different contractors like electrical contractors, painters, window washers and all the things that you could possibly think of, roofers, specialists 

Dave: in different areas.


Steve: They all use 

Dave: these aerial lift platforms, but they use different ones. Some use 

Steve: a regular scissor or a rough terrain scissor or a telehandler or a 

Dave: telescopic boom or an articulating boom. Different ones to some extent. And also, I 

Steve: didn't know all these trades. 

Dave: I knew some of the trades, 

Steve: That used them, but I didn't know all of them.

What do you mean trades or trade? The trades. All the different contractor types. Oh, I see, okay. The different segment. Segment of the industry. Yeah. Let's 

Dave: call them jobs to be done. Yes. Okay. Yeah. 

Steve: Okay. Sure. Tasks that you on a construction 

Dave: site or even maintenance that use these.

Okay. So I 

Steve: asked it a couple I did, it was iterative in that I, first I 

Dave: asked it, what are all the segments that you can come up with that are these task oriented ones that use this type of equipment? And it gives me a list and I said, I want more. And it gave me more, et cetera, et cetera.

So then I said, take your expansive list. And it was probably like 50 different things. I think it really was like 50 different types. 

Steve: Yeah. I believe it. Believe of, believe it activities. Believe. Okay. And I said I would like to know for each one of those activities, the extent to which 

Dave: they use each 

Steve: type of aerial lift 

Dave: platform.

Five different types. Okay. Does the, does this trade use each type high, medium, or 

Steve: low? So you're asking it to rate to give you like each trade? Yep. And what they use and how Yes. And which are in what order. 

Dave: And I asked them to say I asked them to build, give the output in a grid format so that it would have.

The left hand column, all the trades, and then across the top, the different types of telehandler and in each or the different types of aerial lift platforms in each cell, high, medium, or low usage. By each of those trades, basically before I could hit enter, the whole grid appeared and populated. We're talking three or four seconds.


Steve: 50 

Dave: times five, that's 250 cells in a grid. No. 

Steve: Okay alright, pause. Yeah. Yeah, pause. How long do you think it would take you, or how long do you think it would take somebody that you hired, some outside contractor that you hired to research that and find that answer?

Dave: A couple thousand dollars of someone's time, either mine or someone that I hire, to get it right. And I'm not going to say that I didn't copy and paste this and use it per se. I got checked it and I changed some things based on my own knowledge and I'm going to send, I created something more of it and added some other things that weren't on the list and massaged it or whatever.

But it saved me and my client a hell of a lot of time. So now I can do other value add work. That's right. And it reminded me of things that I didn't know no. Or that I had forgotten or what have you. And it's wow. And then of course, if you want to ask it anything, dig deeper on this particular, situation or whatever, it's going to go and, give you that info.


Steve: I make a, an additional comment about this? Yeah. That, one of the things, one of the warnings that is coming out all over the place about using AI is don't copy and paste. And, put it in your own words. Make sure it's in your own voice. Make sure you double check.

And I get that I to, I totally get it. I totally get it. But I also think that, I think what is more important is the prompt. See I ha I have, and I, and somebody needs to. I feel like that guy is sitting at that table with the sign that says, yeah. That says, prompt engineering.

Exactly. Is the next superpower. Prove me wrong. The only thing that 

Dave: would prove you wrong is the people I was with last week said, oh, prompts are going to be history soon. They're already working on, yeah. I get that. Ways to eliminate a prompt, 

Steve: I don't know, but for now, I know. No, and in fact I agree with that.

I agree with that. But it's not here now. E Exactly. So 

Dave: I had a guy, I was telling him, that I use this every day and I use it, as a substitute for Google or I use it to, just get extra information about things and, it does stuff. It's very useful. And so he sent me an email.

He says, I experimented with that thing you told me. And I asked it to scrub 

Steve: a website. And it said it was an AI 

Dave: chat bot and it couldn't do that. 

Steve: So I gave up and that, and I'm just like, and that is where, okay, and this may even go back to what we were talking about earlier about, but your friends in AI is that we are still humans and we still and every single one of us has our own heuristics about the world.

And so we see things as we are, we don't see things as they are as we just don't, we just don't. It is so hard to accept the fact that the way I have been thinking for the last 10 years, all of a sudden is wrong also. Or not wrong. No, it's not wrong. I, it's, I also think it's, no, it's not relevant anymore.

Dave: Do you think that some people have different, I think some people have different learning styles. Like some people really love experimenting and playing around with things and learning by doing and failing, and then trying again and failing and trying again, and learning and getting better. Some people they want an instruction manual.

Yep. And they 

Steve: want it exactly to work. And if they follow the 

Dave: directions, they're going to work. And they're not hardwired the same way. And I think this is, at least for now, this is going to favor people who are willing to play around with it. If it gives you a bad result and it 

Steve: says it can't do it, try asking a different way.

You did, you changed the prompt. That's all it is. That's why I think at this moment, and of course I agree with these people 100%. When somebody says to me, oh, we're, they're, we're, and, prompt engineering is going to be, is going to be gone. That stuff's not going to come anymore.

I'm going to go, you know what? I agree with you. But until then, Prompt engineering is the superpower. 

Dave: It really is. There's video, there's a lot of videos. There's, if you search, people, there's people who are teaching it, teaching prompts right 

Steve: now. Yeah. And if there's anything I would say to people right now is that if you want to get, if you want to kick your competition's ass, learn prompting.

Yeah. Because you, like you were just talking about all these different areas that you went in and you were asking AI and I use the term AI because, hey, they're all, it's all they're everywhere. They're everywhere. And it's everything. Yeah. It's, there is no one, there is no one tool.

Chas, Jasper, Barb, and I'm fa I'm fascinated by how you went in and. And use that stuff. When you were, you and I were preparing to even have a conversation today both of us went on to AI and we were prompting for ideas to talk about. Did we both do 

Dave: that separately? Did you did you see mine and you then you went and did 

Steve: it?

Or did we actually have the same idea? Oh no. I'd already done, I'd already done it. That's so funny. But that's just without even thinking about it, 

Dave: I'm just 

Steve: like, oh, what are some, because you and I, we think about future podcast 

Dave: episodes and we plan ahead. So instead of just like sitting there racking my brain, I went in and wrote a long prompt about, what should 

Steve: pod my podcast, 

Dave: our podcast episodes be what would, and you wrote in, what are most often search terms for mar marketing related search terms.

Yeah. And the reason why that works is because, we have an audience of people that like B2B marketing, and, if we can make it a podcast episode that hits the 

Steve: sweet spot of what they want to hear that's the important thing. Why wouldn't we do that? And that's important thing.

And that's why just I and I'm going to continue this to stress this. I am simply only talking about AI at this moment in time. All right. This sucker is going to change so fast. It's changed so fast in the last six months. And know, and my little brain, my little pee brain doesn't know where it's going.

But all, but I do know this, I do know this. It has already proved that

Somebody that it helps us. It helps us in ways that we couldn't even have imagined. 

Dave: The one of the founders of OpenAI, I saw a video and recently and someone asked him what do you think the landscape will look like five years from now? And he said he has no idea about where the AI will actually be in five years.

But he thinks that there will at least be a couple companies that will be as big as any company the world has 

Steve: ever 

Dave: seen ever. 

Steve: I think I saw, I think I saw that interview. Did you see that? Did you see that? I think so. And 

Dave: it's wow. 

Steve: How many users, and he didn't he also say, didn't he also say that this is the first great challenger to Google?

Dave: Yes. And 

Steve: that is and I don't think, I don't think he meant that in a that's true. He, no, he didn't. In a, oh, I'm we're, 

Dave: he didn't Google. It's, but it's actually true. 

Steve: I think AI has shocked. Not just all the easy people to shock. Okay.

But when the c e O of Google says I don't know how Bard learned Nepalese, 

Dave: and even bill Gates was interviewed. I saw another one recently where he was talking also about the open AI and my Bard and Microsoft and all that. And he was like he, they give him update meetings here in and there and he says you're still training it and, so when it can do this.

And he like, gave it a challenge and he said, when it can do this, then I'll be interested in really talking about get, letting it go live, blah, blah, blah. So I'll be back, this is like summer. And they, and he said, so I'll be back. You know what, towards the end of the year we're talking like November or whatever.

And the guy responds and he goes, no, you can probably come back in about five or six weeks. And Yeah. And he, it was just, 

Steve: Yeah. See, and that, see that, that is a, again, I think it just goes back to, with when people are experienced at something, when they've been around something for a while, again, they we develop our heuristics Okay.

Where we see things a certain way. Okay. And we analyze things a certain way. And we think that, I hate to say it, I think Bill Gates thinks he's pretty smart, and he should he is verifiably scar, of 

Dave: course, in a world that he has known with the boundaries and parameters.

That he has grown up with and that he is known to date. And as you said, everything changed on November 22nd. 

Steve: I know. And my question about every smart person in every industry, single one of them, my question for us is to say, do we really believe that they don't have heuristics?

Everybody does. Yeah, everybody does. And that's why when I hear PE really smart people say something about ai and they kind and they say it in a way where they sound like oh yeah, this is the way this is not we're Oh, yeah. As the moment I start hearing that kind of a conversation.

Yeah. I start think I immediately start thinking it's their heuristics. Where'd you go? Are you running away from me? You're right. No, I'm back. I'm back. Did you just want to lap around that? The office? No, I didn't. I had to get a book. Cause you, you went that direction and then you came back from this direction.

Yeah, I went around the world really fast. Yes, you did. Yeah. What book is that? What book is that? It's called The Inevitable by Kevin Kelly. So Kevin Kelly was the founder of 

Dave: wired Magazine and Yes. 

Steve: Futurist. Yes. And this is oh, here it is. To Dave, Kevin Kelly. Did 

Dave: you write that?

No. But this was pretty wild because When was this book out? This was in 2016 and I think I think this was 2017 when I, when he signed this It's 12 understanding the 12 technology forces that will shape our future. There's, things like self-driving vehicles and things like that.

But when the question of AI came up, he basically said, he goes, you all have no idea. He's it's a whole other revolution on the scale, or more the of, like the industrial revolution or something like that. Because he said when steam and then electricity and then the internet, when all those things came, almost overnight everybody said, oh, okay, where can I apply that?

I'm going to apply this to every single thing I possibly can. Yeah, we're going to motorize everything. We're going to electrify everything. We're going to ize everything. Yeah. He said there's going to be AI in everything. And not to mention, augmented humans. I, and not that we want these things, but now at this point, how do you put any of this back in 

Steve: the barn?

It's out of the box. And, and I am just, I'm one of those guys where, see when something when I see change comes up, see when the internet, when Nick Nicholas Negroponte, and I wish I could remember the book that I had read. And after I met him and talked to him, and all of a sudden I started learning about this thing that was going to be just this, it had already been created, the internet had already been created to, to help scientists communicate with each other.

Yeah. In a way that and it was based on war. All right? It was based, the US put this together. US government put this together because they didn't want. An enemy to be able to come in and, blow up someplace, uhhuh. And it would yeah. Stop people stop the smartest scientists from communicating with each other.

Yeah. That was how the internet got created. Thank God we're 

Dave: not using AI in any military way whatsoever. Thank the Lord. Oh 

Steve: my God, yes. Thank God. Because I'm sure 

Dave: that we're not Oh my God. Because who would do that? Yeah. Who in the world would do that? 

Steve: You know what? There's good and evil, 

Dave: that there's good and evil applications of literally everything since the beginning of time.

Maybe it's a trade of humanity. Maybe it's actually even a trade of machines. Who knows? And they can't tell the difference. But wow. This is what we're going to have to grapple with. What I have 

Steve: a friend that I grew up with that actually founded the 

Dave: fir, he actually co-invented the XML language oh wow.

Websites use. And he founded the first like b2, beat internet com exchange company. It was called Chemex. And they just, they made, they sold chemicals and put, buyer and seller together. And he made a fortune and he retired. But in 92, like around the time that he was inventing xml, I said, what is the impact of all this?

This was before, any human we couldn't get on a o l or any of that kind of stuff. There were a few things that you could get on. And he signed us up for something and we played around with it, but screen, all that kind of stuff. And he said here's an idea. He said, I guarantee that in the mu in the future, and I don't know how many years, he said, all music will be free and you're going to pay like $500 to go see the Rolling Stones Live.

And I'm like, he said that? Yeah. 

Steve: In 92. Wow. In 92. And I said, what the hell are you talking about Jeff? What? He's oh yeah. It's just it's just all going to be 

Dave: digitized. There won't be a business model for selling music, but there will be for 

Steve: seeing music. So what he was saying, what he was saying was that okay, it was going to be another, see, originally you went to see people live.

And you paid to go see people live. And then all of a sudden, records and tapes and things like that came along and they made more money from the product that they were selling. Oh. Than they were from the concerts. Much, much. And now, as we all know, can't now. They really can't.

We all know it's flipped too much from all that. It's gone backwards. It's gone back again. It really has. So it's just wild. And I guess the same 

Dave: thing is going to happen with ai. There'll be certain things that are completely, 

Steve: Disrupted and 

Dave: replaced. But then on the flip side, there will be some things that, become a dearer probably because of all this.

I don't know. Yeah. We 

Steve: don't know. But of course that is the way this stuff works. Okay. And, And I guess I, I guess it goes back to when, when, and I didn't mean to make you feel bad but I have a propensity of doubting experts. 

Dave: You have a 

Steve: propensity of them.

Yeah. 100%. I, you know what? And when? A, when a c when the internet came out, and I had been studying the internet for years in, before anything, I had my first website in 1994. Okay. And, and I was saying to people, this is the way it's going to go gang. Th if you're not jumping on this right now, you are going to miss the bandwagon.

And there were so many experts who just because I was a big time speaker Co. I was a columnist in big trade magazines and things like that, and people just said, Steve Miller is the dumbest. Stupidest person on the planet. And I was like, okay, yeah, we'll see. We'll just see. And yeah, exactly. Exactly.

And so now it's the same thing. Is that all these there are no, there are certainly, there are people who are really smart and they are go and they're going, Hey, we got to get, we got to get on board with this and we got to learn this and we got to do this right. And stuff like that.

But there are also, and it's just human nature. There are also people who are experts and they hang on to yesterday. Yeah. Because, yeah. Because when the, and I'm going to say it again. I'm a broken record. Yeah. When the CEO of Google says, oh, we didn't see this coming.

We didn't know this would happen when we released this two weeks ago. Exactly. Okay. 

Dave: I have a, so another collateral damage from this. It has to do with trust because all of a sudden sin, I was always a little skeptical, naturally about what I read and what I saw in the news or anywhere, anything that come across.


Steve: it real? But 

Dave: sin, really increasingly, almost daily, increasingly I just don't know if a photograph that I see is real, if the per, if there's a person in it, did you see the Pope picture? 

Steve: I thought the pope. I thought the pope in the Balenciaga. I thought jacket.

I was so happy for that Pope. I thought he is the coolest pope that ever lived. Coolest Pope ever. If you're 

Dave: listening and you haven't seen the picture of the Pope in his white Balenciaga puffer 

Steve: jacket, that was the, I wanted that coat. I wanted that coat. Oh yeah. It's expensive. 

Dave: And, you just don't know.

You don't know if anything is real anymore. So I guess there's going to be a business in verifying if something 

Steve: is real. Oh, yeah. Without question. That's coming about, but I but from my perspective, the people that I respect the most are the people who were the experts.

And now they are saying, we don't know. We don't know.

When somebody admits that to me, that is, that takes so much courage. To say that. And it's hard. It's so hard when you've dedicated your time, your life to something for so long, and all of a sudden, all of a sudden this curve ball comes out of the metaverse that, you're just going holy crap.

So here's another challenge I 

Dave: think, 

Steve: to listeners, because I heard this all the time. For 

Dave: some reason, like everybody wants to jump to the conclusion, oh my God, this is going to replace my job. But you can look at things one way and you can look at them another, and you can say, oh if you just sit back and do nothing, it might replace your job.

But how about if you use it so that you can be better at your job? And then, and beat the competition. Just, I don't know, I look at it 

Steve: differently. No, I think you're exactly right. And people say, like you say, they say, oh my gosh, this is going to replace my job.

My response to them is, can it? And if it can, that's your fault.

Because you ha you have designed your own job. Everybody designs their own job regardless of what you're doing, you ultimately are designing, designing what you're doing. All right? And you're building this little box that you live in. And if you're one of those, if you're one of those people that phones it in, you're, you're just begging to be replaced.

And, but if you're one of those that has figured out a way to make it, ah, you know what, I know, I think I know how to do something that, where it requires me to be involved, then good for you. 

Dave: Yeah, 

Steve: exactly. I also have a 

Dave: client I may have mentioned before that makes auto vehicle lifts that go in service 

Steve: base that lift this power truck.

Yes. We've talked about, we've talked about this client before. Yes. So I won't read, I won't tell you the prompt 

Dave: And some other things, but I asked it to write a light heart. 

Steve: No. 


Dave: okay. Please write a 15 word blog post blog, blog post on how to make the right decision when buying an automobile lift for your auto automotive service shop.

Write it at an eighth grade level. Make it entertaining and use a joke or two that would appeal to somebody who is an 

Steve: automotive service technician. Now, this is a 15 word you asked to write 15 word 1500. Oh, 1500 words. Okay. I'm sorry. Yeah. But I'm going to give you just a sample of what it cranked out Okay.


Dave: seconds. Cool. In including the joke that it made up. Hey there, 

Steve: fellow gearheads. Are 

Dave: you tired of crawling under cars and struggling with floor jacks? 

Steve: If you're ready to elevate your game, 

Dave: pun intended. And automobile lift is just what the mechanic ordered. But with so many brands and options, how do you choose the right one for your 

Steve: service shop?

Don't worry, we've got your back. This guide will walk you through the 

Dave: process and help you make an informed decision. So buckle up and let's lift off. Why lifts are essential. Automobile lifts are the backbone of any service shop offering, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And as a bonus, you won't have to suffer from mechanics yoga anymore.


Steve: know those awkward positions you have to get in 

Dave: while working under a car. Nama, stay indeed. Now let's dive into the exciting world of auto lifts and the top brands such as blank. And here's 

Steve: a joke that will have you quote, unquote jacked with laughter. Why did the mechanic need a new lift?

His old one couldn't 

Dave: handle the pressure. Ah, So it goes on. Factors to consider when buying a lift, capacity and vehicle types with some words, lift type, brand, reputation, safety, 

Steve: features, 

Dave: ease of use, installation, maintenance, price, and warranty. It did it and it was publishable really almost without a change.

Yeah. See, 

Steve: okay. So that, does that eliminate someone's job or does that help them with their job that goes back, yeah. Oh yeah. See that's the thing. It helps them with their job and they can do something else. And the answer is sure it can but you had, you wrote the prompt. Ah, yes. That's that, that has been my point, right?

Yes, I did. Is that prompt engineering is today's superpower. Yeah. Okay. They might say, oh my God, look at that. It replaces us. No. The prompt replaced you. What would 

Dave: what would it have done if I had just said, write a blog post about buy, the, buy how to buy a list. Yeah. That would've been boring, but I 

Steve: instructed it.

That's right. You instructed it. And I and I just absolutely loved that. I just think, that was really great. And I'm already going to tell you what our next conversation is going to be about prompts. Yep. Let's do it. That's what we're going to talk about.

Because you and I have two different approaches to prompts and they both have worked, I think very well for both of us. And it just, it's just one of those things where, you know what, there are many roads to the top of the mountain and learning how to do this stuff. I love the prompts that you have read to us today.

I just think they're just incredible, but you had to really spend some time, putting it together and that Oh yeah. Is valuable. Yeah. 

Dave: Yeah. 

It's a little bit like being a manager. You're, your instructions 

Steve: are, are important or you have an employee you've got an employee who is, who has the ability to move mountains.

And, this reminds me of Stephen 

Dave: Covey. When you think about seven habits of highly successful people and all the things that he 

Steve: wrote, he has that story about how he left his 

Dave: son to take care of the yard for a couple days, and he came back and it looked, in his opinion, messy, there was some trash on it, some other things.

And it was brown. And he said, you didn't take care of 

Steve: the yard. And he's 

Dave: I cut the grass just like you said, and I did the engineer or whatever. And he's what about that? What about that? And he said, you didn't say anything about that. 

Steve: And he said, so it's so important to say what is the outcome you're looking 

Dave: for?

And in his case, it was clean and green. I want the 

Steve: yard clean and green. And this is no different. This is no different than no different managers. Managers no different who hire somebody and they say, okay, go do this. And you give them this instruction. And then you come back later on and you go what the hell is this?

And they said I did what you told me to do. Same thing with ai. Maybe you didn't tell him enough, but ai, AI is, can move mountains. Yes. Ai when you give AI the right instructions, it can move mountains. Man that, those prompts that you wrote are awesome. Just, 

Dave: yeah, and this doesn't even, we're in the marketing business.

This doesn't even touch the surface of people who are actual coders. I've talked to a lot of coders who are basically using AI to code for them. It writes a lot of code, it does math equations, it does all sorts 

Steve: of things. Yeah 


Steve: and it does, but I think the va I think, Hey, you might disagree with this.

I think the majority of people who are listening to us right now are watching us right now. They're in small businesses who where they've got, they wear a lot of hats and they're com they're fighting to compete, with in the marketplace and stuff like that.

But they don't, they don't. They don't have a lot of they're not coded, they're not coders. And they don't have a lot of time. But boy, I'll tell you what, something like this can really make a fricking difference game. Yeah. It really 

Dave: can. So, if 

Steve: you're listening and you're thinking of if you're still here, that's just like a big company thing where we don't, we, we don't need that.

Think again. Yeah. And if your 

Dave: company won't let you use it, just use your personal account. And then if they get mad at you, tell 'em to call. 

Steve: Steve. And I will say you need to start your own business as a solopreneur, selling prompt engineering to companies who will pay you for the value that you're giving them.

There you go. Maybe we should do that, Steve. I think. I think very soon. I think very soon. Prompt engineering is going to be a very high valued skill. 

Dave: Hey, on that note, my dogs are barking because they’re hungry. They're 20 minutes. 

Steve: Your feet. Your feet wait. Your feet are barking. No. Isn't that how isn't that the old?

Isn't that the old saying? The dogs. The dogs. Yeah. My dogs are bark your feet. Yeah. It's like you're going, oh my man, my dogs 

Dave: are bark. No, these are real canines. These are not Oh, P pet whatever. So 

Steve: I need to go. All right my friend. Take us out of here. 

Dave: You all have not been listening to an AI bot, but you have been listening to people talking about them.

None other than Steve Miller. We didn't even have an intro on this one. So, this is the intro and the outro. No, this is the B2B Marketing Sales podcast with Steve Miller and the Dave Loomis, also known as The Voice. And it's been a pleasure talking with you and debating and getting excited about this new world we live in.

For better or for worse, next time we're talking about prompts. Tune in. Bye-bye.